Verbatim transcript of interview by PC Joe Williams on Friday, September 13 2024
This a verbatim transcript of the voluntary interview, under caution, I tape-recorded when PC Joe Williams questioned me — in the presence of a duty solicitor — on Friday, September 13 2024.
PC Joe Williams (PCW): “You’re not under arrest and you are free to leave at any time.”
“Would you describe yourself as White British?”
Greg Hadfield (GH): I never have done. But yes.
PCW: Routine mentions/questions about drugs, drink, mental health, self-harm, need for a referral worker, confirmation I’m retired, Sussex Police’s Code of Practice.
Start of formal interview at 19.58 on Friday, September 13 2024
PCW: “You are here for a voluntary interview so we can ask you questions about your suspected involvement in an offence. I must point out again you are not under arrest and may leave at any time.
[Brighton Custody in the “voluntary attendance suite” — PC EA937]
“I am going to speak to you about an allegation of harassment. But first of all I want to caution you: You do not have to say anything that may harm your defence. If you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence.”
[Confirmation my Twitter/X account is @greghadfield]
PCW: “What is your relationship to Fiona Sharpe?”
GH: I have no comment to make to that.
PCW: “How do you know Fiona Sharpe?
GH: I have no comment to make to that.
PCW: “On July 4 2024, you posted a picture on X showing homosexual pornography tagged Fiona in it. Why did you do this?”
GH: Show me the tweet
PCW: “I am just showing Mr Hadfield a picture of the post that was made by his profile and Fiona Sharpe is mentioned in it. Do you recognise that post?”
GH: I have no comment. I thought you said July 4.
PCW: “I did. The message…she was tagged in it on July 4. She was tagged in it or mentioned in it on July 4. Or at least that’s what she reported as being. It’s not clear to me what the actual date is.”
GH: It says June 25
PCW: “I’ll clarify that. But in her statement, she says it was July 4.”
GH: Have you got her statement. Can I have a look at it?
PCW: “No. Not at the moment. No.”
GH: That’s not her Twitter.
PCW: “That’s not her Twitter?”
GH: No.
PCW: “That’s not her Twitter username is what you’re saying?”
GH: That’s not her Twitter handle. As far as I know.
PCW: “Who is Ivor Caplin?”
GH: It’s not for me to say…You can read it on Wikipedia…Ivor Caplin? He’s the former defence minister, former Labour MP, best friend of Peter Kyle and Fiona Sharpe. The former chair of the Jewish Labour Movement. He’s now suspended from Labour…on June 11.…After serious allegations. It’s been reported publicly.
PCW: “What did you mean when you said Fiona Sharpe has known about his ‘likes’ and dislikes for some time, referring to Ivor Caplin?”
GH: I’ve nothing to say about that.
PCW: “How did you intend for her to feel when you said this?”
GH: I’ve nothing to say about that.
PCW: “Is it reasonable to feel she would be harassed by this?”
GH: I’ve nothing to say.
PCW: “In the comment below, you imply that Peter Kyle’s best friend would like the act I’m showing to you come in her mouth. Who are you referring to?”
GH: Sorry. What?
PCW: “The question this person is asking is “Where would you come? In my mouth? On my face? And you can see, you’ve written ‘In your mouth nice’ and you’ve tagged Peter Kyle in it. And implied his best friend is saying that.”
GH: I can’t see that.
PCW: “Were you referring to Fiona?”
GH: Sorry!?!
PCW: “Were you referring to Fiona. With that comment? When you referred to Peter Kyle’s best friend, were you referring to Fiona?”
GH: It says a 65-year-old. I don’t know how old Fiona Sharpe is…
PCW: “If you don’t know how old Fiona Sharpe is, how can I know that is not her.”
GH: I have nothing to say about it. You’ve got the tweet. I know what the tweet says.
PCW: “In another post, you tagged Fiona’s husband and stated his place of work. Why did you do this?”
GH: Show me that….That’s not my tweet…[Team Phoenix etc].
PCW: “As far as you are aware, is that her husband?”
GH: I have nothing to say about that.
PCW: “Which one of these is your tweet?”
GH: Winston Pickett. Not Wilson Pickett.
PCW: “What did you mean by that? As far as you are aware, is that her husband?”
GH: I have nothing to say about that.
PCW: “OK. I feel like you think I’m asking stupid questions. Or being difficult. But the CPS will ask the same questions, if it goes that far.”
GH: You’re not asking anything I wasn’t expecting….
PCW: “How do you intend for this to make her feel by posting about her husband?”
GH: I have nothing to say about that. Unless my solicitor advises me otherwise…Apparently not.
PCW: “On July 4. 2024, you tagged Fiona in another post accusing her of hypocritically moonlighting a hate crime panel. What did you mean by this?”
GH: Oh, this is July 4. …quote allegedly tagged …so it’s not July 4.
PCW: “The information I have — which may be incorrect — is that on July 4 and the following 24 hours there was a stream of posts.”
GH: Election day? Show me….what did I say? That’s not me.
PCW: “What is your connection to Team Phoenix then?”
GH: I have nothing to say about that. But it’s not me!
GH: [PCW’s confusion about how Twitter works.] Who has provided this? Fiona Sharpe?
PCW: “Yes, she’s provided it. So that’s why I’m asking you about it. She believes you’re the person behind it.”
GH: She believes I am the person behind Team Phoenix [@LeftPhoenix]. Is that the allegation?
PCW: “The allegation is general harassment.”
GH: So she thinks she’s being harassed by Team Phoenix; she thinks I’m harassing her?
PCW: “Potentially. This is what she sent as evidence of what you’ve done.”
GH: Has she got anybody else she wants to associate me with? That isn’t me.
PCW: “Even if we ignore Team Phoenix, we can talk about the ones which your profile is attached to.”
So long as you are aware that is not my Twitter handle.
PCW: “Fair enough”.
GH: Well, not fair enough. She complained about me saying that and it wasn’t me!
PCW: “It’s not for me to question her about it. I was just taking the statement.”
GH: Have you not questioned her about it?
PCW: “Not at this point, no. We believe every allegation until we see otherwise. Which is why we are speaking to you about it.”
GH: You believe every allegation until otherwise?
PCW: “On the face of it, yeah.”
GH: I have evidence that that is not factually the case.
GH: Team Phoenix isn’t me. I don’t know who Team Phoenix is.
PCW: “You also posted: ‘Noone can disagree with SharpeFiona. What did you mean by that?”
GH: What did I reply to?
[PCW shows me]
GH: I have nothing to add
PCW: “You also commented ‘hmm’ [sic] with a question mark [sic]. On a post that Fiona had written about a person she describes as demanding a platform for the Jewish community to allow her to rapewash history. What did you mean by that?”
GH: I think that covers my response
PCW: “But what did you mean? Was that a negative response, a positive response?”
GH: I’ve got nothing to add. I can’t do a commentary on every tweet, every reply or riposte
PCW: “You’ve also posted a video of Tony Robinson doing a video, with a caption saying ‘Vote Labour’ and a link to an article about a Labour funder under a post that Fiona has made. Why did you do that?”
GH: Can you show me? Am I allowed to ask how this is harassing Fiona Sharpe?
PCW: “At this point it is how it’s made her feel. The allegation is that she feels harassed.”
GH: By this? Where am I? ….Tony Robinson…I’m not quite sure of the relevance of any of this.
PCW: “But what was the reason you posted it. I appreciate, on the face of it, it is not an offensive thing to say. But it’s just a bit odd that you claim you have no relationship with her that you are posting about her so often.”
[I and my lawyer pointed out I had made no comment about Fiona Sharpe, ie whether I “had no relationship with her”]
PCW: “So Fiona has blocked you on X/Twitter, but she alleges you have made sure that she can see what you write about her by tagging her in your posts or mentioning her in your posts. Is that correct?”
GH: I know you don’t understand how Twitter works. But if you block someone, you don’t see their posts
PCW: “Even if you tag them”.
GH: That’s my understanding. And I’m not even sure whether she blocks me or when she blocks me. If she blocks me she can’t see my tweets or mentions or anything.
PCW: “Do you think this course of conduct — by that I mean tagging her in these posts, mentioning her in the posts, referring to her in the posts — would be considered to be harassment by any reasonable person’s definition?
GH: It’s not for me to say.
PCW: “Are you a reasonable person?”
GH: It’s not for me to say. I’ll be judged by reasonable people.
PCW: “I believe that you ought to have known this would be behaviour that amounted to harassment.”
GH: You believe it?
PCW: “I do, yeah. Based on what I have got in front of me. And you have not given me any reason otherwise that I can base anything on. If it wasn’t intended to harass, why would you do it?”
GH: Do what?
PCW: “Post about Fiona in these ways.”
GH: Which ways. I’ve barely said anything.
PCW: “Let’s start with the first one then. Referring to her in a picture of two men having homosexual sex. That alone surely enough to ask the question what was your purpose in doing it?”
GH: It’s a reasonable question.
PCW: “Have you got an answer?”
GH: I don’t wish to comment.
PCW: “Fiona is on the Board of British Jews. Have you got a grievance against them or against Jewish people in general?”
GH: Fiona Sharpe is?
PCW: “From what I know. Yes she is. That’s what I’ve been told
GH: I don’t know whether she is.
PCW: “Have you got a grievance against that group for some reason? Have you got a grievance against the Board of British Jews?”
GH: I have no comment to make about that.
PCW: “Against Jewish people in general?”
GH: No! I have a letter from the Labour Party saying I am not an antisemite. That letter followed a two-day hearing when I was accused of antisemitism for saying: “The state of Israel is a racist endeavour. And always has been.” It was found that that was not an antisemitic statement. By the Labour Party.
PCW: “Were you expelled from the Labour Party?”
GH: [Sighs] I was expelled from the Labour Party for organising a conference of socialists in Brighton, during the Labour Party conference in 2021. Without a hearing. Or without charges. It’s called a summary expulsion. On the same day that one of my iconic comrades Ken Loach, who did Kes in my hometown of Barnsley, was also expelled.
PCW: “So the letter you have got from the Labour Party that says you’re not an antisemite is unrelated to that issue?”
GH: Oh yes, I was cleared; I was unsuspended immediately.
PCW: “OK cool”
GH: The next day I was accused of antisemitism. It’s happened for eight years! At least I’m not being accused of antisemitism now.
PCW: “No”
GH: Am I not?
PCW: “No. I’ve got ask you obviously. Jewish people are mentioned. She believes it may be a motivation for you. Because she’s Jewish. But, based on what I have seen here on those tweets, I haven’t seen anything derogatory.”
GH: So I’m just accused of harassment?
PCW: “Correct, yes.”
GH: Because antisemitism would be a ludicrous charge…
PCW: “Obviously you’ve gone ‘no comment’ for most of the questions. However, can you just confirm or deny that you did send those tweets and your profile is greghadfield. Otherwise, I am going to have to seize your telephone in order to examine it to find that out. Did you send those tweets?”
GH: Can we take a two-minute break?
PCW: “Sure”
[After a brief break, the interview resumes at 20.24]
PCW: “Can you confirm you did send those tweets from your Twitter account?”
GH: I’ve got nothing to say
PCW: “OK. Very well. In that case I am going to be seizing your telephone under Section 19 of PACE”
[After a brief break, the interview resumes at 20.31]
GH: How would you seize it?
PCW: “Well hopefully you would hand it over to me.”
GH: I think I can say this: @greghadfield is my Twitter account. Any tweets tweeted by that account were tweeted by me and I take responsibility for every tweet tweeted by that account. That doesn’t include reposts or replies or ….that’s the form of words I want to put on the record.
[I repeated the form of words for PCW]
GH: I can confirm that @greghadfield is my Twitter account. Every tweet tweeted by that account was tweeted by me and I take responsibility for those tweets. I emphasise tweets, because that does not embrace someone else’s reposts, or replies, or comments by some other Twitter accounts. If you had printed all those out, I could have put a tick next to each tweet. And said yeah, yeah, yeah.
[Interview ends about 8.40pm]
